alpaca-clouds

What "Communism never works" misses

Okay, let me keep up the topic for the week and let me talk about one thing that will undoubtedly be thrown at anyone, who says something along the lines of: "Welp, the system is failing us. Maybe we should try communism." And that is: "Communism never works. It has never worked before!"

As someone, who had that argument thrown at them so many times before, I already know that for the most part it is useless to talk to someone who comes up with that argument. Because, well... here is the thing. The argument basically is a result of what amounts to brainwashing. The person will usually not know what communism is or how and why it has failed before. They will not know anything about communist parties or countries. And they usually do not want to know.

Usually they do not know, that communism was never tried before. Yes, several countries have tried to establish communism, but never got further than socialism. Nor do they know exactly, what the difference between all those different communist ideas are. And of course they do not know anything about the history of the USA (and other western countries) doing their best to suppress communism by any means necessary.

Which is the first thing that everyone, who uses the argument, misses. Basically...

If communism can never work, why does the USA try everything to stop anyone trying to establish it?

If it cannot work and will never work, they would not need to worry about it. It will just develop and then fail. Easy. No need to stage a coup d'etat against a democratically elected government. No need to snuggle up to fascist dictators. Just let the thing run its course and then maybe send some help, once communism has self-destroyed. Something that they say is inevitable.

But obviously they don't. So: Why?

It cannot be about saving some sort of democracy, because otherwise they would not help undemocratic forces to take over the country and allow them to hold it.

But there is another thing that the argument misses. And even bigger thing. Another question:

But does capitalism work?

Which is the thing that kinda gets left out of the discussion. Because even if we assume that communism could not work (doubtable)... There is the fact that capitalism does not work. Otherwise fascism would not again and again be established from capitalism. Otherwise capitalism would not have destroyed the planet. Otherwise capitalism would not kill millions of people per year.

See, people will always go big about the entire "Black book of communism" thing and eat it up, even though the book has so many issues in what it counts as "death from communism" - and that is even without going in the entire "communism was never established" thing. But even if we took the numbers at face-value... According to the book, communism has killed 100 million people.

Well, guess what. That is about the same number of people that capitalism kills in a decade. And while the black book of communism counts all those people killed by politics not necessarily linked to communism... Those 10 million dying of capitalism each year die of capitalism. They die because they have not money for medicine, they need to survive. They die, because they starve, while so much food is thrown away. They die of exposure to the elements, because they cannot afford a home. They die from the fallout of climate change.

So, yeah. First of all: Let's try out communism, before we argue that it cannot work.

But also: Realize, that capitalism does not work. Because it doesn't.

durkin2082

The utopia is never coming dipshit. The state you hand over supreme power to is never gonna just willingly hand it back over, it'll just genocide you all again. That's what communism is, and you retards will keep doing it no matter how many bodies pile up as long as somebody keeps promising you free shit.

unterwaesche

Capitalism doesn’t actually have a body count at all, but the governments that interfere with the market and put up barriers to charity certainly do. That, by the way, makes for a mixed economy and not actual capitalism, so if we’re going down the “communism hasn’t been tried” route, then capitalism has also not been tried.

The idea that capitalism leads to fascism though is just...really, really stupid. The bigger fear of communism spreading is that slide into fascism, which is much more likely, since socialism can go one of two ways, and if it doesn’t go the communism route, then it goes the fascism route.

But the fact that no country has apparently even gotten to communism should be a big hint that something is very wrong.

But we’re brainwashed.

And anyway, things are getting worse as we slowly move away from the small semblance of capitalism we had into a more and more planned economy. It’s not going to get better if we don’t go back.

Because capitalism is the thing that works.

gsirvitor

libertarian-druid-on-the-hudson

One of my favorite FreedomToons episodes ever too.

yourlocalfallofthewest

jesus christ anticomms are so stupid

“the state you hand over power to will never give it back.”

wrong. this frames the state as a separate, unrelated entity to class, which is just entirely false. the state is a tool of class domination that is forged from class struggle, used by the oppressors against the oppressed. to achieve communism, you need a socialist revolution, which has the proletariat gain complete control of the state, making it serve their interests.

“capitalism has no body count”

i’m sorry but what the fuck? 20 million people a year minimum have a lot to say to you.

“the only deaths that seem related to capitalism are, in fact, caused by government regulations that ‘interfere’ with the market and put up ‘barriers’ to charity”

first off, almost all forms of capitalism we have active in the world today are neoliberal economies(meaning they are largely unregulated) and because they are unregulated, this allows prices to climb higher and higher and wages to fall lower and lower, it allows millions upon millions of people to starve due to not having the fucking money to SURVIVE, and second off, the idea that charity would fix all the problems in the world is wrong. for instance: let’s say there was an orphan crushing machine (i know this analogy is stupid, just fucking listen) that funnels millions of poor orphans who’ve been struggling all their life for the tiniest morsel of food or the smallest sip of water, throwing money at the problem won’t solve anything. at most, maybe you could save one or two very fortunate orphans, (them most likely being white, straight, cis, and able) but the machine still runs. thus, the only way to solve this problem is to take a hammer to it and in its stead, set up a system that instead supports and accommodates said orphans. if throwing money at the problem actually worked, there would be no need for revolution because everything would be utopian.

”capitalism doesn’t ‘descend’ into fascism”

wrong. fascism arises directly as a result of late stage capitalism(i.e capitalism in decay), as a militaristic force to serve its needs, whether they know it or not.

and, inevitably

“you’re just describing communism!!1!1!1!1!!1!1!”

this you?

yourlocalfallofthewest

oh and @durkin2082 maybe don’t use slurs

durkin2082

"This frames the state as a separate entity to class"

That's because it is. Your never going to wield the power of the state, its never going to serve your interests. Theyre lying to you to cede more power to them, and you're retarded enough to do it.

And nigga did you just blame being unregulated on prices climbing? We keep track of inflation of different markets, this is objectively the dumbest shit anyone has said. The direct impact government regulation has on increasing prices you can literally predict it the second the state announces they will be interfering with the market.

Nobody is starving in capitalist countries, even the poor are fat as fuck.

Your dumbass wants a bigger more powerful orphan crushing machine and you think by somehow making it more powerful it'll stop crushing orphans.

Fascism is a direct result of socialism. They were literally socialists, they were people like you, who thought they took over the state to make it work for them.

Maybe stop being fucking retarded?

not-semi-perfect

“Maybe don’t use slurs” my comrade their going to be calling you worst things then retard when they line you against the wall.

Bite ya tongue

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

God: “Adam, I’ll let you name the birds”

What "Communism never works" misses

If communism can never work, why does the USA try everything to stop anyone trying to establish it?

But does capitalism work?